Feature Series: Coaching with Natalie Krayenvenger

It’s hard to encompass everything we are as helping professionals into a few-paragraph bio statement. If you’re hoping to learn more about the diverse group of people behind the Therapy Collective, you’ve come to the right place. This post is the second in a series of interviews with Therapy Collective clinicians (and now coaches!) about their backgrounds, passions, and clinical interests.

Natalie and I completed this interview via phone—on my end, from a Starbucks parking lot. I am not sure where Natalie was, but I did not hear any orders for lattes and hot chocolates from her line during our interview. Instead, I heard a lot about Natalie’s unique approach to helping students succeed and passion for her new role as Executive Function Coach with our Collective.

Interview by, Carley Foster LCPC

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Carley: How did you get into coaching in the first place?

Natalie: Well, I am a classroom educator by trade. I was in the classroom for over a decade and then…COVID happened. I quickly switched to distance learning like everyone else for the remainder of the 2020 school year, and then thankfully got to be back in the classroom the following fall. It was certainly different, but was also the best year of teaching I ever had because of the parameters. With a class of 10 students who were with me ALL day, recess and lunch included, I got to know my students unlike I ever had before, and was able to become more of a personalized coach, as opposed to a teacher standing up in a roomful of kids, trying to teach to the masses. I was able to delve into how I could help each of my learners specifically by meeting them exactly where they were and then pushing them further. Seeing how impactful that style of education can be was a huge aha moment for me.

I am also an athlete. I grew up playing sports, played varsity level in high school, and then became a coach for Lacrosse and Basketball after college, so I already had that coach-mentality.

Then at the end of the ‘20-21 school year it all came together. I had to make the decision to leave the classroom due to some non-negotiables and where I was in my career. I desperately wanted to stop having to worry about bureaucracy and just be able to work with learners and their families, really get at it, and be able to give everyone exactly what they needed. It was that summer that I started my coaching business for learners and their families.

Carley: So you work with parents about as much as you work with kids?

Natalie: That depends, but overall I would say I’m working with parents and caregivers far more than I was when I was in the classroom, and I was always known for having strong lines of communication as a teacher.

What I’ve discovered is that for the older kids I coach, those who are in high school and have pretty solid executive functioning skills, I work with them more than I work with their parents. When it comes to learners who are in elementary and middle school, or high schoolers who struggle with executive function, I honestly do a lot more parent coaching/education.

Whether it’s helping parents to understand their child’s learning differences, ways to support their child at home, deciphering how math is taught today, educating them about social-emotional skills/emotional regulation, or helping them to implement strategies to support executive functioning hurdles, if I can give the families the tools to support them when they are at home, that is going to be way more impactful than their child only meeting with me an hour week.

So for example, if a child is struggling with emotional regulation, I don’t just want to explain to the child what’s happening in their brain and body when they are getting upset and give them strategies to use, I want to coach the parents, so they understand what might be happening and can then make changes in how they view their child’s behavior, their routines, the way they speak to one another, and how they can set themselves up to be successful and supportive parents who can reinforce the coaching I’m doing. 

In the previous example of emotional regulation, I would most likely start out by talking about the zones of regulation. I’m a big believer in the mind-body connection and what a child’s behavior can tell us about how they are doing and what they might need. For example, think about a time you were hungry, scared or exhausted. Your brain wasn’t functioning as well as it would have if you had a full tank and felt safe. Instead, you might have gotten irritable, angry, distracted. If you know about zones of regulation, you would be able to recognize that you were no longer in the green and more likely than not, in the yellow or even red zones. This awareness would then allow you to employ the necessary strategies to get back in the green. Helping parents to notice and navigate what their child’s behavior is communicating allows them to better understand what their child needs and be ready to help them.  If we look at a child’s behaviors as a form of valuable communication, not as something we dislike, then we have a greater ability to support that child.

Carley: I use the adult version of zones of regulation when I work with clients. I know we don’t learn very well when our sympathetic nervous system is aroused, because we’re focused on survival, not learning new information. What you’re talking about is really important, because it maximizes a child or an adult’s ability to learn.

Natalie: One hundred percent. A lot of times with parents, it’s providing a framework for understanding what’s actually going on in their child’s mind and body. Anytime we understand something better, it’s less scary, for the parent and the child.

A lot of times as a teacher, I would observe children get very upset with themselves if they got out of control. Once they finally started to calm down, get themselves back together, they would feel guilty or ashamed. A big thing I wanted them to understand is there’s no such thing as a bad feeling. What most of us have to work on is what to do with the feeling. Once kids understand their brain-body connection, they actually have words to be able to explain what is happening inside themselves. Far too often we tell kids to use their words when they don’t have them yet, I mean, look at adults—

Carley: Right, sometimes adults don’t use their words.

Natalie: YES! So here we are, asking so much of our kids, when if you actually get into a conversation with some adults, they don't know how to do the very things we’re expecting out of our eight year olds. So my goal is to help parents understand all of this, and at first it seems like a lot, so they can understand and work on themselves and then be even better prepared and able to support their child, whose brain, might I add, isn’t even fully formed yet. And if we are talking about children with ADHD and executive function difficulties, their prefrontal cortex is a bit further behind developmentally. So again there’s also an education piece needed—okay, your child has ADHD or struggles with executive functioning . What does that mean? How do you support them? How do you ensure they are getting their accommodations while still learning important life skills and hacks?

Carley: I’m realizing some people may not know what executive functioning is. It’s kind of a jargon-y term. Can you explain that for someone who isn’t in the mental health field?

Natalie: Absolutely. Executive function is a group of skills that allows us to get things done, be successful in life. Some people say it’s four skills, eight, sixteen, it depends on how much you want to break them apart. The biggest ones though are emotional regulation, organization, time management, task initiation, focus, planning, inhibition, flexibility, reflection or self-awareness…pretty much all the things you can think of that could get in your way of being successful if you struggle with it: for example, I’m trying hard to go to the gym every day. I go for a little bit then I stop going. Why is that? Is it a matter of, I’m not building it into my schedule, planning, for it? Did I go, but then get upset I can’t do everything I want to do immediately and so I give up? Am I all ready to go, but just can’t seem to make myself actually get into the car and go? All of those scenarios have to do with executive function.

Carley: Which directly relates to your ability to perform in an academic environment. If you struggle to plan, it’s really hard to write a paper.

Natalie: Exactly. All of these life skills are needed to be successful in most school environments, and far too often no one is explicitly teaching them to the learners who are struggling because of a multitude of factors. Teachers either don’t feel they have the time, or honestly don’t know about them or how to incorporate them into lessons. Parents may not have ever struggled with EF, so they don’t understand why their child just can’t fill in the blank or they are still struggling with them themselves.

Carley: I think this would be a great place to pause and bring up that your background is in teaching and coaching, and my background is in counseling, and our work dovetails a little bit. How do you see the difference between what you’re doing as a coach versus what other people are doing as therapists?

Natalie: Sure. Therapists are there to help diagnose, manage and navigate mental health related issues. They delve into the past and work a lot with feelings, emotions, trauma, and relationship issues. You may work with a therapist for years. Coaches, on the other hand, may only be needed for short periods of time and are here to help you set and attain goals in the future, and improve your life in performance related areas. We are not trained mental health providers.  

And to further define things…Initially, people kept saying, “Oh, you’re a tutor,” but I told them, “No, I’m a coach.” “Tutor” usually has a negative connotation to it—you’re struggling, you can’t do it alone. It comes from a deficit mindset. “Coach” on the other hand: the best athletes in the world have coaches because there is always something we want to improve or elevate. So when I meet with any client, I want to know: what’s the thing you want to get better at, and how can I help you do it? My style is definitely a give and take: tell me a little bit about you, your goal, what you're really good at, your struggles, then I’ll offer you suggestions, and you tell me whether or not you’d actually do it. That’s the other thing, right? I can have the best plan in the world, but if the person is not being honest with themselves, and is not going to do it, then what’s the point? I’m not the kind of person telling you, “This is the only way,” I am the person helping you find the way. The other thing I do is offer accountability. It’s kind of like having a gym buddy. If you tell somebody you’re going to the gym, you’re more likely to go to the gym. You met with me, you set a goal for the upcoming week. You know you’re going to see me to check in, and that I’m not going to be judgmental if you don’t do it. Instead we’re probably going to talk about what got in your way, what can we do to get it out of your way, is it a realistic course of action, do we need to try something else? Especially for people with ADHD, the accountability is huge. We can think of a million reasons to let ourselves off the hook.

Carley: So who’s your ideal client?

Natalie: Oh gosh…

Carley: Do you have an ideal client?

Natalie: Honestly, anybody who wants to show up and do the work to be a better version of themselves. I love working with the littles and upper elementary age children because they are funny, have amazing ideas and can be given the gift of early intervention/education. Pre-teens and teenagers are great because they are brutally honest and often are in need of someone who is completely on their side, but is also not their parent. I truly enjoy coaching adults because that’s the phase I’m in right now. I’m figuring myself out and going through it all with my own child, so I put this stuff into practice all the time. When I say “it’s hard,” I actually know it’s hard. I know it’s hard as a parent and as a child who is struggling. I also know what it’s like to be a student struggling because I’ve been through all of this. I am neurodivergent myself. I had to learn how to navigate a neurotypical world in a “delayed way” because I was misdiagnosed. I missed getting the support I should have gotten because we didn’t know as much about ADHD when I was growing up, especially what that looks like for girls.

Carley: It sounds to me like you use a lot of your personal experiences because there are things you’ve had to learn to get by, and now you can teach people.

Natalie: Hundred percent! If you need to feel like somebody understands you, is invested in you, will give you all they’ve got because they have been there, I’m your huckleberry.

Carley: I happen to know you work with college students. Before I was in graduate school, I did not realize there is a percentage of students who go through elementary, middle and high school never having an issue, then when they get to college they aren’t able to perform at the caliber they need. All of a sudden, they get diagnosed with ADHD, or Dyslexia, or Dyscalculia, or some other learning disorder. They had it all along, but because the level of work in college is so different than what you’re used to in K-12, they just flew under the radar. So, how would you work differently with a student like that versus someone who got those interventions early and had an IEP, for example?

Natalie: Well, regardless of how old someone is, if they are coming to work with me right after finding out they have a learning difference, first we would answer the question ‘what does all this mean?’ and learn more about who they are as a learner, friend, employee, any other parts of their life that have been impacted, as well as their diagnosis. We would work on figuring out how they have always learned best, identify challenges, and start implementing strategies.

In college, where young adults are often living on their own for the first time, away from parents who managed their time and kept them organized and teachers who broke down assignments and sent home notes when assignments were missing, and face to face with more downtime, distractions and independence one, this is when issues that had been inadvertently covered up or enabled can come to light. And it can be debilitating. Away from home for the first time, we can feel so utterly alone in our struggle. We can also feel shame as we fail to achieve the very thing we have been working toward our whole academic lives. But I’m here to say, there is no shame in being who you are. No shame in asking for help.  We have to learn to ask and answer the questions, “How can I advocate for myself? Where are my people and my resources? ” and build up those perseverance muscles, so coaching college students who have never had to do that before is huge.

Carley: Do you have any final thoughts or a final message before we finish up?

Natalie: Just one? Well, we all have our struggles, but we also all have our gifts. No matter how your brain works, there’s nothing wrong with it. The world needs every type of brain there is, because we have a lot of problems. We need a lot of different perspectives so we can have a plethora of opportunities to make this world the best it can be, so be proud of who you are and always continue to strive to be the best version of yourself.